@Anastasiya Gendelman: Some great points here, and I will add that a lot of what Subfolders can accomplish will be handled, ultimately better, with Relationships, and it's great that we have them in v1 right now. Relationships are the typical approach the nocode guys (Airtable, Coda, Notion, etc.) use.

However, as you use those tools, you will ultimately see that you can't "group" elements (whatever you use their "items" for - tasks, laptops, Clients, etc) without creating another "type" that you have to relate to. For example, if you want four groups of your clients, you have to create an actual "type" called "Group" and relate to the clients. That's not natural.

I have found Wrike's approach the absolute most intuitive, as it mirrors old school file folders, and actually new school Email categorization, subgroups, etc. I have thought that ClickUp could really differentiate itself if it simply created a way to "group" tasks, or should I say "items" per this exciting post: https://clickup.canny.io/feature-requests/p/custom-item-types-instead-of-only-tasks, while leveraging relations for most of what Folders are trying to accomplish in this thread.

So to simplify - we'd have a structure that would have bespoke capabilities around Relationships, leading to the ability to handle in ClickUp in a first class way things like CRM, Support Tickets, Inventory Management, Sprints, etc., but also "Group" your items sensible.

Asana and Wrike, the two biggies when it comes to folders and items being in multiple, as well as all the nocode I mention, either do one, or the other. None of those, and nothing I've ever seen, handles both Grouping, and Relationships.

Hope that's useful!

@Brendan Wolfe: From my understanding all of 2021 is focused on performance is that correct? Does that mean we shouldn't expect this feature until next year?

@Brendan Wolfe: Thanks but I got tired of waiting and found a different tool. Once my subscription ends I will not renew it. As other have stated, you should focus on stability AND features. If you focus just on stability then it means that the product is too unstable and not mature enough...

@Brendan Wolfe: @John Park reliability and removing bugs from ClickUp! Bravo, but should you have tested the features much better before they are released. Have active users find so many bugs and issues is not the way to release a product. ClickUp should slow down and stabilize the product adding new features at the rate you have been will just delay getting a stable product to the users. Also with the number of bugs and issues you should spend more time getting better support.

@Chase Crawford: We're making great progress on this front, as our engineering team is working on bugs and our speed teams (both frontend and backend) are working separately to increase the speed. DevOps is working on upgrading our infrastructure and we've got a lot planned for later this year! Subfolders is a big one and a lot has to come first, especially considerations to how it affects the hierarchy and current features. We'll get it done don't worry!

@Adnan: For any new features released, we're uplevelling our automated testing and QA processes to ensure the exposure to bugs is minimal. We're aiming to release this later this year, so no worries on that front. Bugs are our focus but we're still releasing smaller features to provide our users as much benefit as possible!

@Dennis Bannon: You're correct! We've slowed down entirely and our focus is just on bugs and performance right now. We're overhauling our QA processes and added a bunch of automated testing to reduce the bug exposure for our users!

@John Park: What tool are you using now? I want to switch too

@Brendan Wolfe: You didn't answer my question and I'm not convinced by anything you say because as bugs are fixed new ones show like clockwork.

@Brendan Wolfe: That's good, let's hope you guys stick to that thought. Also every time I get a response from a bug report they say we have passed this. to our developers. Are the developers part of ( employees) of ClickUp or is it out sourced.

@Brendan Wolfe: Sub-folders should be considered to be in the "performance" category. Sooo important to an organization's organization, sub-folders should have been a default in the original specs.

Please prioritize this ask and integration for Outlook calendar (critical needs) for so many of your customers. Instead of giving us smaller (absolutely petty) features like what just was so proudly rolled-out. Yay! We can now click on a profile and see how behind they are. And whom has said what to whom. Maybe let us work on our own accountability.. and you guys work on yours?

*The longer your clients have to wait for subfolders, the more influx of data we will have to restructure when we finally get them.

*The longer your clients have to wait for Outlook calendar integration, the more clients WE risk because of double-bookings.

@John Park: If you do not mind me asking...is this a customized tool within Click up that you made work?

@Brendan Wolfe: This is seriously a basic feature for any project management platform. This is a huge fail on ClickUp part, not having this implemented and not providing it out of the box. This feature needs serious priority in your development plan. Your die hard fans have been waiting 1-1.5 years to get this implemented and still nothing. Please give us some timelines on when to expect this, instead of putting it off. My entire business depends on this, and I've had to piecemeal different apps to function around this lack of feature. Very frustrating!

@Chase Crawford: I understand, and I appreciate you bringing your concerns to light! I hope we can change your mind and show you the best version of ClickUp as soon as possible.

I've sent your feedback directly to my co-workers on the product team as we don't want our users to feel that way. Showing them the true concerns and feelings of our users is the drive that keeps us pushing together as a team 😄

@Dennis Bannon: Great question! We do not outsource any kind of development or engineering. Any one who works on our platform and app is a ClickUp employee!

It is our entire focus right now, outside of small improvements being worked on from before the initiative started or new developers who are joining our team!

@Brendan Wolfe: You still haven't answered my question...

Hey @Vanessa Lockridge - I hear you!

Subfolders and a true 2-way sync with Outlook are on our roadmap. While we focus on improving the speed and squashing bugs, the smaller improvements we make do help the quality of life for a lot of ClickUp users. They might not directly impact your usage, but one of the reasons we built ClickUp is so anyone with any workflow can use it too!

Performance includes the reliability, speed, and overall user experience of ClickUp. Subfolders are one of the most important pieces we're looking to add to the ClickUp hierarchy and hope to have more to share as soon as possible!

@Chase Crawford: I apologize! When I said that we have a lot coming later this year, I meant that Subfolders are still on our roadmap for this year.

@John Bauche: Hey John! We're not putting it off, rather focusing on the speed and performance of ClickUp which comes first to the largest majority of our users. Without a stable platform where you can add a Subfolder and increase your hierarchy, usage of ClickUp is hard!

We're working very hard to get our app in the right place to start adding major features again!

@Brendan Wolfe: This week? I think you misspoke...

@Chase Crawford: Updated 👍

@Brendan Wolfe: This app has too many features that aren't optimized or work well together and not enough basic features like folders for docs and subfolders. I'm new to CU but how have people been using this for so long it seems unusable for real world applications? I have never seen so many bugs in one app, let alone an app targeted at businesses. I can't even use it.

@Chase Crawford: I'm sorry you feel that way! Doc Folders and some big improvements for Docs should actually be coming up very soon. As I mentioned, Subfolders are also planned but do require a lot of backend work and adjustments to how we currently manage the hierarchy, location permissions, user permissions, and interacting with our other features like Dashboard widgets, soon-to-be Location overview, and much more.

I'm glad you mentioned optimizing features to work well together, as that's exactly why we're making sure all is in place before releasing Subfolders!

@Brendan Wolfe: That all sounds good but I will believe it when I see it... I still can't drag & drop in docs because of a bug, opening notes in the chrome extensions breaks my note's formatting, I can't click url links in board view, sometimes custom fields won't load on half the database in board view... I could go on but not worth my time.

You claim to save us one day each week but you are adding work to my plate by making things so difficult to use and half the time it doesn't even work at all.

I will not be keeping my subscription if there are not massive overhauls this year.

@Vanessa Lockridge: ClickUp was built as an internal tool and was NEVER INTENDED to be a public offering. They actually intended to make project management more leaner by cutting out the extraneous hierarchy (which is why I jumped on board 2 years ago) - and thus was never in the "original specs" (which, again, they had none because it was built only for internal use without much "planning" - they needed something to Plan ON)

People are used to sub folders of subfolders of subtasks of subtasks thanks to the old-school way of managing files in Windows - however as a PM, I find myself playing micromanager and file manager more than getting productive work done - which is why I personally don't think subfolders should be a priority. There are so many better ways of managing information imho.

@Brendan Wolfe: @Vanessa Lockridge Constructive observations:

* I believe Clickup is losing potential Asana-type customers daily. i.e. they see no main space nested folders option and move on to notion... If they still decide to try clickup for a trial spin, then when they try to search for tasks and notice an awful search engine: wrong search results, endless search results with no filters... Please don't misunderstand me, as clickup has come a long way, but it needs IMO to focus more on the main 80/20 most customers will use instead of lots of 'bells and whistles' approach. Sometimes more is not better.

* In addition, there is no recourse for individual customers to get advanced features, i.e. unlimited mind maps. Their only recourse that I am aware of is to upgrade to the business user platform, which makes no sense whatsoever for the individual user.

whew! my rant is over.

@Anastasiya Gendelman: Thank you for that info. I didn't know how ClickUp began. I appreciate the opportunity to look at it thru that lens and adjust my impatience. And I saw your above post about the price we pay for such an amazing product. I have to totally agree with that and I apologize to ClickUp.

Not so sure how "h" your "o" is though.

As a PM, I guess I can understand how you could think subfolders would be extraneous or old-school. However, as a company that manages multi-projects separated into multi-categories inside multi-departments within multi-divisions, we need the extra layers to keep it all straight. For management and financial reasons.

@Vanessa Lockridge: the amount of data to restructure LATER is also something I am dreading. I mean, they released subtasks up to like 7 levels deep..... the sub-folders should've been right alongside that.

@Stephanie Henry: @Vanessa Lockridge I think you've both hit the nail on the head! Subfolders isn't for everyone, just like nested subtasks might not be used by certain users of ClickUp.

The choice on using the feature is definitely up to you, but will allow some users to open the doors to new systems and workflows!

@Raul Carvalho: To be transparent, its shifted back a little bit in our roadmap as we're still heavily focused on performance, speed, reliability, and squashing bugs!